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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Ayla Crenshaw
Polish Immortals
19
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Posted - 2013.04.12 19:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Well that mildly suprised me!
It's going in a good direction. Cap need change on beams, while not completely counterbalancing loss of hull bonuses towards cap use will help making all of the new lineup more capstable. Maybe even firing the damn things without capping out!
What it needs now is some heavy EFT wizardry and testing on SiSi. I'm not convinced it solved all problems but it's really a good start. |
Ayla Crenshaw
Polish Immortals
24
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Posted - 2013.04.15 09:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Amarr pilots askings for less cap consumption on lasers while gallente pilots ask for more range on blasters in the gallente BS thread.
If CCP listened everyone, we would have one ship with customizable models, and weapons would all be the same with different graphics....
PS : also, about tachyon turrets, please, stop whining about them. 425mm railguns are balanced with Mega Beams ; if tachyon were as easy as 425mm railguns to use, they would be insanely OP.
Actually we're asking for the same cap consumption on lasers, since they are taking away the cap use bonuses... I'd be fine with the current, measly reduction if we got a damage boost in the trade.
An interesting note here is that any mechanic that prevents players from, you know, playing, is bad design. Changes to prevent that have been present virtually everywhere; from D&D 3.5ed nerfing paralysis and hold spells, to Leage of Legends tiptoeing around stuns... how it's relevant to current situation? Amarr is the only race in the game that doesn't need external stimuli to not being able to fire continually due to lack of goddamned capacitor. And don't even mention ammo, our advanced crystals burn out; also, how many fights are over because one side ran out of ammo? Average cargohold can squeeze enough shells to keep firing for hours. Amarr BS caps out in 4 minutes. By itself.
I somewhat agree regarding tachyons, it's still unacceptable to not be able to fit a full rack of a weapon type on Battleship without fitting mods when a BattleCRUISER manages it. |
Ayla Crenshaw
Polish Immortals
24
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 07:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
At this point we need actual hand-on feedback from SiSi to discuss the issue more. There's only so far you can go with theorycrafing and napkin math.
I just hope they won't call it quits after throwing us this one little bone and leave lasers alone for another few years. |
Ayla Crenshaw
Polish Immortals
24
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 20:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:I just get an awesome idea : let's make all weapon capless, so that everyone is equal !
A straw man? Really?
Reductio ad absurdum type of arguments are so last decade... |
Ayla Crenshaw
Polish Immortals
25
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Posted - 2013.04.17 08:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Ayla Crenshaw wrote:A straw man? Really?
Reductio ad absurdum type of arguments are so last decade... Absurd ? Certainly. But certainly not more than the requests here. Cap cost and fitting are the identity drawbacks of lasers, exactly as much as short range is a drawback of blasters. Hence why I think asking for these drawback to be removed is, if not absurd, to take with a lot of care. The absurd come when you actually look at the game and see that amarr ships are definitely among the best everywhere. So why should they have their drawbacks reduced ? To which goal should they be reduced ?
Watch the latest Alliance Tournament.
If Amarr are among the best why the hell weren't they used (nearly) at all? It was all Minmatar, Gallente, Vindicators with lots of Merlins, Tengus and an occassional Widow setup. Amarr were represented by a Vengeance or Absolution here and there and I think one HAM Legion rush team.
There was another problem with "among" in your argument, pointed out in Battleship thread. They are "among" the best, not "THE" best. That means there's a better choice for nearly any task there is, and why would you willingly use something suboptimal? |
Ayla Crenshaw
Polish Immortals
25
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 10:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Ayla Crenshaw wrote:Watch the latest Alliance Tournament.
If Amarr are among the best why the hell weren't they used (nearly) at all? It was all Minmatar, Gallente, Vindicators with lots of Merlins, Tengus and an occassional Widow setup. Amarr were represented by a Vengeance or Absolution here and there and I think one HAM Legion rush team.
There was another problem with "among" in your argument, pointed out in Battleship thread. They are "among" the best, not "THE" best. That means there's a better choice for nearly any task there is, and why would you willingly use something suboptimal? Why don't they show a lot at the AT ? Maybe because the rules of the AT favors very high dps and speed ? The fields where gallente and minmatar excells at... Amarr can't be the best everywhere. Why is there hellcat doctrine and navy apoc doctrine ? The truth is that in the history of EVE amarr BS always managed to adapt to the metagame. They are that good. They go through all the buff and nerf, and they are still there, with all their inherent power. Their BS are probably the best BS killers, and that's due to damage projection and tank. And they still are the best at this. The problem is that their is not only BS at the AT, and lasers indeed have trouble shooting at smaller targets.
Some valid points, but...
Some people would cry "HOMOGENIZATION" and other complicated multisyllable words, but balance should stretch out to most tasks that can be attempted in a ship.
I don't have some lofty expectations, I just want a ship that can run missions without cap boosters. From what I heard this wish is shared by PvPers too - to fight without capping yourself out by, well, fighting, without even a neut applied. |
Ayla Crenshaw
Polish Immortals
25
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 11:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Ayla Crenshaw wrote:I don't have some lofty expectations, I just want a ship that can run missions without cap boosters. From what I heard this wish is shared by PvPers too - to fight without capping yourself out by, well, fighting, without even a neut applied. Armageddon will be the godly mission runner amarr lacked before. As for the capacitor, the damage projection of laser allow amarr ship to not overuse their prop mods. A gallente ship for example will use most of its cap only to move at range, and will be almost caped out before even firing. Same goes for minmatar, as they can't outbrawl anything by standing still.
I probably should've specified I meant "I just want a LASER boat that can run missions without cap boosters". I won't get into Armageddon OP/UP discussion or it's viability for any task... because as it's stands now it's not an Amarr ship. It's a bastard mutant brother of Dominix. Amarr boats are all about lasers, and nobody in their right mind would put them on the new 'Geddon. |
Ayla Crenshaw
Polish Immortals
25
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 12:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Ayla Crenshaw wrote:I probably should've specified I meant "I just want a LASER boat that can run missions without cap boosters". I won't get into Armageddon OP/UP discussion or it's viability for any task... because as it's stands now it's not an Amarr ship. It's a bastard mutant brother of Dominix. Amarr boats are all about lasers, and nobody in their right mind would put them on the new 'Geddon. That's a stupid request. I did lvl4 missions with 4 months of skills in an armageddon, and had no problem doing them with 3 or 4 minutes of capacitor. With proper skills and dps, I think 3 minutes should be more than enough. Cap stability is stupid in pve.
You do realize that Armageddon had the cap use bonus back then and did not cap out from firing only it's guns? That's 3-4 minutes with reppers running on autorepeat which seems about right for most L4s.
With current change you'll run out of juice in under two minutes and that's definitely not enough. |
Ayla Crenshaw
Polish Immortals
26
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Posted - 2013.04.22 06:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Naomi Anthar wrote:Bouh Revetoile wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:No, it can't. Bad cap life happens to be a particularly crippling aspect, same as having trouble fitting weapons.
It's one of those singular aspects that can completely ruin a ship.
A damage ship that can't fire its weapons is useless. Why you seem to think this doesn't matter is baffling to me. This crippling aspect didn't prevent the Abaddon from becoming one of the best ship in game. And the same goes for multiple laser ships. Can you show me one ship ruined by it's bad capacitor ? And you think it was one of best ships because of what ? It was best because of resist bonus not because of goddamn lasers T_T if it could use autocannons or artillery (aka being bonused for it) then it would.
Actually some historical data I dug up pointed to Abaddons using Artillery at some point in EVE lifetime. En masse. I think it was a "thing" on Serenity until just recently.
Not that Our Dear Special Needs (he's got a very special need to keep Lasers ******) Friend Bouh will ever admit it's a problem. Not that it matters much, because he's just a lone troll. |
Ayla Crenshaw
Polish Immortals
26
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Posted - 2013.04.22 09:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Naomi Anthar wrote:And you think it was one of best ships because of what ? It was best because of resist bonus not because of goddamn lasers T_T if it could use autocannons or artillery (aka being bonused for it) then it would. Should I conclude that actually no ship suffer from these crippling cap and fitting ? If the hull advantages compensate for the drawbacks of weapons, then it's balanced. If you buff the weapons on such a hull, then it become OP. That's really the first time I see people acknowledging for ships being rather good and still crying for a buff like if it was require for the ship to be used.
Called it.
Dear Bouh, every time a ship, as a standard fit, does not use it's bonused weaponry thousands OCD-suffering nerds cry out in terror. They don't get cut short though, unlike poor souls on Aldebaran. Why? Because it points out there's something terribly wrong with balance going on. |
Ayla Crenshaw
Polish Immortals
26
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 11:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Ayla Crenshaw wrote:Dear Bouh, every time a ship, as a standard fit, does not use it's bonused weaponry thousands OCD-suffering nerds cry out in terror. They don't get cut short though, unlike poor souls on Aldebaran. Why? Because it points out there's something terribly wrong with balance going on. Sometimes, a bonus is situational and make the ship very good in these situations, yet the ship can be good in other situations even without using this bonus. I know this situation puzzle a lot of people, but I don't see it as problematic, that is a tool for balance like any other I think.
So you should be perfectly fine with Railguns being totally unviable, right? |
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